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  1. #1441
    SSOC Senior bldyannoyed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klippie View Post
    If the new Sport is around the £18k then you will see very competitive PCP deals on them, I've had a theory for a while now that new car retail prices are intentionally inflated to make even more money as most new car buyers are only interested in the monthly costs.

    I'am from the old school that thinks £10k for a car is bloody expensive never mind £18k for something the size of a shopping trolley.
    Ain't no PCP deal in the land thats going to make 18k seem reasonable. Not interested if I have to go into the dealership and negotiate like a demon just to get a car at the price it should have started at BEFORE I started haggling. 18k is mental money for a Swift.
    PCP doesn't matter, if the car is overpriced your monthly payment is going to be overpriced. If anything dealers are becoming ever more reluctant to offer big ticket discounts on finance deals because it is costing the industry millions. Look up Voluntary Termination and you'll understand why.

    18K is too much, period. At that point I'll cough up the extra 30 or 40 quid a month and get an actual hot hatch.

  2. #1442
    SSOC Addict Klippie's Avatar
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    The problem with buying anything these days is borrowing money is too easily available, lots of people who cannot afford to buy items outright but want or think they need them (iPhone 8 for example...£600+ for a phone) are quite happy to get credit for all sorts of things cars included as long as they can cover the monthly payments they don't care if it they spend every penny they earn as long as they have the latest hot thing on the market...they end up with no savings for a rainy day then struggle when things go bad.

    Look at the UK deficit this country is living way beyond its means the annual UK GDP just covers our international interest payments on outstanding loans but the government carries on borrowing because money is cheap at this time, if anyone thinks its bad just now with all the cuts to services etc wait till the interest rates go up then a possibility of defaulting on the loans happens then the shit will really hit the fan.

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  4. #1443
    SSOC Elder Desmo's Avatar
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    Exactly Klippie - well said ! People are far too keen to take things on finance they can barely afford. My folks stood by this mantra ;
    If you can afford to buy it outright - great, if you can easily afford the monthly payments and maybe even pay it back early - go for it. If you can't afford either option - don't bother !

    On another note - do you really need that iphone X or do you just desire it ? Do you really need an Audi S3 or do you just want the supposed kudos of driving one ? If the Samsung or Ford are affordable and do what you need them to do, why put yourself in debt just to have the 'label' ?

    To return to the original topic, if the new Sport is released in the UK at anywhere over £17.5k I think new sales will dive .....

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  6. #1444
    SSOC Senior bldyannoyed's Avatar
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    Nobody "Buys" a new car. Handing over cash, or a credit card, or getting a loan to OWN a new car is stupid. Depreciation on cars these days (thanks largely to PCP making new car "ownership" so cheap) is so severe that anyone who buys one brand new rather than getting one that's 2 years old and half the price in some cases is certifiably insane.

    Today if you want the peace of mind of a warranty (and lets not talk about after market warranties which are almost universally worthless) you borrow a new car on finance. My ZC32 is on PCP and its been fine. It costs 170 quid a month and other than servicing and tax I don't have to give money another thought. Compare that to the used cars I owned previously which felt like they broke on a weekly basis and FOR ME a PCP deal has been absolutely the right call. It is unreasonable to suggest that anyone who gets a car on finance is some impatient fiscally irresponsible millennial with no grasp of the value of money.

    And thats why an 18k list price for a Swift makes me wince. My ZC32 is 170 a month, when I got it a Pug 208GTi would have been 260 ish, a Fiesta ST somewhere around 240. The Pug and the Fiesta haven't gotten much more expensive and are still (probably) better cars than the new Swift. A Swift which will now be north of 200 quid a month.

    It's too close to better cars to be worth thinking about.

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  8. #1445
    SSOC Addict lunar tick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bldyannoyed View Post
    Handing over cash, or a credit card, or getting a loan to OWN a new car is stupid. Anyone who buys one brand new rather than getting one that's 2 years old and half the price in some cases is certifiably insane.

    It is unreasonable to suggest that anyone who gets a car on finance is some impatient fiscally irresponsible millennial with no grasp of the value of money.
    I agree totally with you sentiments on the cost of the new Swift. However, your statement above seems a bit contradictory; you say that someone who buys a new car with their own money is 'insane' but anyone who thinks that PCP is frequently used irresponsibly is being unreasonable.

    FWIW, I wouldn't 'buy' a new car. But I bought my current Swift cash. It was 3 months old, had 1,100 miles on the clock and was 35% off list price

  9. #1446
    SSOC Senior Veefource's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bldyannoyed View Post
    Nobody "Buys" a new car. Handing over cash, or a credit card, or getting a loan to OWN a new car is stupid. Depreciation on cars these days (thanks largely to PCP making new car "ownership" so cheap) is so severe that anyone who buys one brand new rather than getting one that's 2 years old and half the price in some cases is certifiably insane.

    Today if you want the peace of mind of a warranty (and lets not talk about after market warranties which are almost universally worthless) you borrow a new car on finance. My ZC32 is on PCP and its been fine. It costs 170 quid a month and other than servicing and tax I don't have to give money another thought. Compare that to the used cars I owned previously which felt like they broke on a weekly basis and FOR ME a PCP deal has been absolutely the right call. It is unreasonable to suggest that anyone who gets a car on finance is some impatient fiscally irresponsible millennial with no grasp of the value of money.

    And thats why an 18k list price for a Swift makes me wince. My ZC32 is 170 a month, when I got it a Pug 208GTi would have been 260 ish, a Fiesta ST somewhere around 240. The Pug and the Fiesta haven't gotten much more expensive and are still (probably) better cars than the new Swift. A Swift which will now be north of 200 quid a month.

    It's too close to better cars to be worth thinking about.
    How long are you making these payments for, what's the final payment and how much will it be worth if you then sold it?

    If it works out to be cheaper than buying outright I'd be astonished, especially as you can generally wrangle 10% off list price as I did.

    Also if a car is worth less than half it's value after two years it's either done silly miles or has been trashed. In either case the owner has either got value out of it or only has themselve to blame respectively. Generally a car will lose a third of it's value over 3 years.

    I was originally looking for a one or two year old car, but they weren't much cheaper than getting a new one with a discount and were generally in poor condition or were ex demo's that had been thrashed from cold. No thanks.

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  11. #1447
    SSOC Addict Klippie's Avatar
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    I think one thing on the new Sport that spoils the looks is the black body kit, on the paint colours apart from black of course it looks a bit tacky if you know what I mean.

    The red is quite nice looking so I had a go at colourizing the body kit on this image...to me it looks much better in the paint colour.

    Pic 2.jpg Rear.jpg Rear Side.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Klippie; Today at 00:13.

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  13. #1448
    SSOC Senior bldyannoyed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veefource View Post
    How long are you making these payments for, what's the final payment and how much will it be worth if you then sold it?

    If it works out to be cheaper than buying outright I'd be astonished, especially as you can generally wrangle 10% off list price as I did.

    Also if a car is worth less than half it's value after two years it's either done silly miles or has been trashed. In either case the owner has either got value out of it or only has themselve to blame respectively. Generally a car will lose a third of it's value over 3 years.

    I was originally looking for a one or two year old car, but they weren't much cheaper than getting a new one with a discount and were generally in poor condition or were ex demo's that had been thrashed from cold. No thanks.
    Same thing, you don't take a car on PCP if you have any intention of buying it at the end of the term. If you absolutely MUST have it brand new (on finance) a Hire Purchase would represent better value for money even though the monthlys would be significantly higher, but the best way to do it would be to get a low interest bank loan, assuming your credit rating allows it, and buy the car that way.

    You buy 2 or 3 years old, and the reason for that is that the overwhelming majority of used cars in the 2-3 year old range will be 1 owner, low mileage PCP hand backs. The terms of PCP means they will at least have been serviced annually, had any warranty work done and had any extra-warranty damages repaired at the previous owners cost. And depending on the brand depreciation can be as much as 40-50%. Have a look around autotrader. You can get a 3 year old Astra VXR at <20k miles for 15 grand (probably less after you haggle) They cost the guts of 27k new. Pugs and Fiesta ST's for 12 grand again at 2-3 years old and less than 20k miles, much less in some cases. Fiesta 21.5k new, the Pug more like 23k. Or, like Lunar did, keep your eyes and wits about you and get a cash deal on a nearly new.

    Interestingly though ZC32's seem to be holding their value incredibly well with single owner 3 year old models still asking between 9 and 10 grand. Maybe because they're the last NA hatch, maybe because they're extremely appealing to younger drivers, who knows.
    Point is, you can't really make sweeping genralizations about anyone who gets a car on finance. Of course there will always be idiots who get stuff they can't afford, but at least on the case of car finance when you can't afford it, all you lose is the car. It's not like missing mortgage payments and getting your house repossessed. Also means you can get a new car every 3 years if thats your thing.

  14. #1449
    SSOC Addict DazzaSport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klippie View Post
    I think one thing on the new Sport that spoils the looks is the black body kit, on the paint colours apart from black of course it looks a bit tacky if you know what I mean.

    The red is quite nice looking so I had a go at colourizing the body kit on this image...to me it looks much better in the paint colour.

    Pic 2.jpg Rear.jpg Rear Side.jpg
    Cool. Thanks for the renders. Although I think I actually prefer those parts unpainted on this car. Unpainted they make the car look longer / lower. The Swift is a high enough car as it is (for a small car), even if the car isn't much different in height... the 'appearance' of a lower car is a bonus.

    In a way it reminds me of my Mk2 XR2 in the mid 90's. That was in Mercury Grey and as some will know, had a dark grey unpainted bodykit and arch extensions as standard. I used to like the contrast given between the 'kit' and the actual metalwork.

    So much so, that I might consider a silver / grey ZC33S for my next Sport. IF the price is right.

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